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RARB/CASA Forums • View topic - A Cappella Innovations

A Cappella Innovations

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Postby IanG » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:12 am

So is this the longest thread in RARB history?
Ian G.
The Back Row ('03-'07), Colorado College all-male acappella, Founder
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Postby UniqueAlias » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:43 am

Wow Eric! That was an amazing post in defense of NXIVM, almost a "cheerleading" type post one could say. The problem is it relied entirely upon personal experience in defense of it, just like others in this thread who took up the same position prior to it, such as Michael's posts. That makes it just as viable as those who have had a bad experience with the group, causing psychological breakdowns and attempts at suicide (with one known success) of the participants.

The problem still remains. Why all of the secrecy surrounding the group? If it's based on facts and science, the group should feel no qualms about publishing material for review in peer reviewed scientific journals. Why so much negative press (much of which you have claimed as "BS")? Is it rational to believe that all of these independent agencies have agendas against NXIVM? Why does someone who claims to have found a basis for an ethics that is applicable to the entire human race, then charge sometimes exhorbitant fees for learning this "world ethics" but then says it isn't for everyone in this thread, who's possibly made millions off of a video conferencing patent and shouldn't have any problems subsisting, in contradiction to the actions of those who were considered ethical people in the past such as Jesus, Gandhi, or Buddha, as Deke has mentioned?
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Postby UnifiedVoice » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:58 am

I don't think Eric should be criticized for speaking openly about his feelings. Of course it doesn't 'prove' anything as you say, but it adds to the overall body of evidence. The criticisms of NXIVM also represent personal accounts. An open discussion is a good thing I would think.
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Postby mcbc » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:29 am

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Postby ariel » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:36 am

I've never gone to an ACI event, for the record.

I think what's really interesting about this thread is to watch the evolution of who has control over the discourse. I think it's pretty clear that this thread is about the a cappella community saying to ACI/NXIVM, "prove to us that you are legitimately interested in a cappella and not nefariously interested in those who participate in it for cult purposes." Deke and Ben have sort of had "control" of the discourse and much of NXIVM membership posting has been in response to that. Which makes a certain amount of sense - many of us trust them as leadership and their measured and thoughtful posts in this thread represent the way many of us feel.

Lauren Salzman's last post, where she wrote to Deke, "I see only three ways for you address Keith's offer" - that strikes me as a very sly way to turn the tables, for NXIVM to gain control of the discourse by appearing to present options for reconciliation to one who we all recognize as a leader. But I am glad Deke has chosen to keep the discussion in the public discourse. I have carefully watched as NXIVM supporters posting here talk the talk about honesty and 100% disclosure but don't walk the walk, instead hiding behind smokescreens like legal confidentiality as others have pointed out, and never addressing that hypocrisy even when asked.

I also see that the more sentiment grows increasingly anti-NXIVM, the more previously-unaffiliated-with-a cappella NXIVM people have come out of the woodwork to join this board to start offering their positive personal experiences with it. The incident of an NXIVM person contacting Amy under the guise of professional contact is disturbing to me, and I don't really buy the story that the woman who emailed her posted here. I can't offer any factual support for why I feel that way - it's my intuition, which I've learned to trust in situations like this.

I also think the logical leap between NXIVM's purported focus on "ethics" and how a cappella is a part of the substantial improvement of humanity overall has yet to be established by the NXIVM supporters posting here. If one assumes good intentions, still, there's no compelling case presented for why they would pick a cappella to invest in, and conversely, if one were to assume nefarious intentions, there's a pretty compelling case that's been made for why they would target collegiate a cappella singers, and how they ran the event this time around also supports the latter rather than the former.

In my mind, that's one of the unanswered questions that Deke keeps referring to. I love a cappella as much as anyone here, but it's not going to save the world in the way NXIVM purports their program will.

As a member of this community, I appreciate all the work and research Deke and others have to done to really suss out what the deal is. In the end, though, the research isn't what convinced me - it's a gut feeling after seeing the posting of the NXIVM supporters here. I see a veneer of warmth and openness that shields a calculated attempt to disprove detractors with ad hominem tactics and personal, unverifiable accounts of how great NXIVM is, and a calculated sidestepping of many of our community's most important concerns that we have articulated again and again.

I won't be going to any ACI events, and I would urge anyone I know to carefully consider what they're getting into before they do. If ACI wants our support and participation, the burden is on ACI/NXIVM to prove to this community that they're in it for the right reasons, and they haven't been able to do that.







I'll be wary of any emails asking me for fundraising consulting work in the next couple days.
CASA Board 09/10
Elegant Catastrophe Singers 2008 - 2009
Downtown Crossing 2004 - 2007
Stanford Harmonics 2001-2004
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Postby livingfiction » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:16 pm

Let's see, Lauren posted, then Deke, there's Ben, then, wait, crap, when was my turn? Did I get skipped? Dang it!

Alright Ben, I gotta keep working on these pictures right now, I'm behind as it is, so next time it's my turn to post give me a call.
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Re: A Cappella Innovations

Postby TheObvious » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:58 pm

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Postby davebaumgartner » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:01 am

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Postby dekesharon » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:38 pm

- Deke Sharon • 800.579.9305 • http://www.dekesharon.com

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