Madison Project - The Khaki Album

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Madison Project - The Khaki Album

Postby vagirl » Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:20 am

Adam Ballard wrote:"The Khaki Album's biggest flaw is that it sounds so drenched in the backwash of a runaway autotuner that the group's personality gets completely choked."


Hey there Adam. Heard an Aires CD in the last few years? :P

~Jennifer
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Re: Madison Project - The Khaki Album

Postby cmasone » Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:08 am

vagirl wrote:
Adam Ballard wrote:"The Khaki Album's biggest flaw is that it sounds so drenched in the backwash of a runaway autotuner that the group's personality gets completely choked."


Hey there Adam. Heard an Aires CD in the last few years? :P

~Jennifer


A) Adam wasn't really involved in either of those albums, save as an advisor. So, implying that he's a hypocrite doesn't work on those grounds. If I had said the above, you could have a legit beef and we could have a nice, rational discussion about it, since I edited every single track of audio on both Black Tie Affaire and Impaired.

B) Given that he certainly has (since he gave me feedback about most tracks before declaring them done on Impaired and he was there to give second opinions during mixing of a lot of tracks on BTA), the fact that he made this comment makes me feel that this album probably has even MORE of that autotuned sound. Something along the lines of AVP's Kate is what comes to mind, or some of the Last Call album.


Why not try to refute Adam's comments instead of trying to make him seem like a hypocrite?
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Re: Madison Project - The Khaki Album

Postby vagirl » Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:17 am

cmasone wrote:Something along the lines of AVP's Kate is what comes to mind, or some of the Last Call album.


Or like, say, "Somewhere North"?

cmasone wrote:Why not try to refute Adam's comments instead of trying to make him seem like a hypocrite?


Who said I was? I've no idea if he's a hyprocite or not. I'm curious how he'd classify the "Autotune-y factor" of the last Aires CD, as a reference. Maybe that's not a fair question though since it'd be hard for him to be objective...how about the new Crosby's CD? To me that's the most "tuned" sounding CD I have yet heard in my exposure to all this stuff. Would he say it's more or less "drenched in the backwash of a runaway autotuner"?

~Jennifer
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Re: Madison Project - The Khaki Album

Postby cmasone » Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:27 am

vagirl wrote:
Or like, say, "Somewhere North"?


Funny you should say that. It's really just those high parts that have a lot of autotune on them, and one part in the block. Have you actually heard the rest of those CDs, or just what was on BOCA? I'd have put Bicycle WAAAAAY higher on the speak-n-spell-o-meter than Somewhere North. Or The Cut Chemist Suite. Or Remix to Ignition.

vagirl wrote:
Who said I was? I've no idea if he's a hyprocite or not. I'm curious how he'd classify the "Autotune-y factor" of the last Aires CD, as a reference. Maybe that's not a fair question though since it'd be hard for him to be objective...

~Jennifer


Your comment certainly made it seem that way. And actually, Adam is one of the harshest critics of the Aires I've ever heard. I doubt he'd have much trouble being objective at all. He called me out on the speak-n-spell thing plenty of times when I was working on Black Tie Affaire.
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Re: Madison Project - The Khaki Album

Postby vagirl » Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:06 am

cmasone wrote:
vagirl wrote:
Or like, say, "Somewhere North"?


Funny you should say that. It's really just those high parts that have a lot of autotune on them, and one part in the block. Have you actually heard the rest of those CDs, or just what was on BOCA? I'd have put Bicycle WAAAAAY higher on the speak-n-spell-o-meter than Somewhere North. Or The Cut Chemist Suite. Or Remix to Ignition.


Yeah...See I never am able to make it past those first few notes as they're kinda grating and kinda silly...the solo sounds mechanical to me too, but I sure like the song itself. By the by I have heard the last 2 Aires CDs as one of my friends here has them both. I haven't listened all that much, but it seemed like they were pretty "speak-and spell" - what a funny analogy, by the way!

Anyways sorry this has turned into a seeming personal attack. It wasn't on you, cmasone. Though now that I have read your posts I see why you came to Adam's and the Aires' defenses, and more power to you. I obviously thought Adam was more than a little harsh with his scoring of Project's CD, and I read Adam's bio and thought it was odd to hear some of his comments considering the CDs his group had put out and the overall sound they had. Thanks for clarifying for me tho. Back to lurking for me.

~Jennifer
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Re: Madison Project - The Khaki Album

Postby jrhailey » Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:35 am

cmasone wrote:Something along the lines of AVP's Kate is what comes to mind


What? Did somebody say Kate? I don't see how this fits into the thread. Are you saying that the album is very autotuned, much like Kate?
Josh Hailey
Academical Village People, '02-'05
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Re: Madison Project - The Khaki Album

Postby cmasone » Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:51 am

AVP Josh wrote:
cmasone wrote:Something along the lines of AVP's Kate is what comes to mind


What? Did somebody say Kate? I don't see how this fits into the thread. Are you saying that the album is very autotuned, much like Kate?


I was saying that Kate sounds to me like Autotune is used as an effect, in the beginning of the song there.

She was saying she thought it interesting that adam would call this album autotune-y, given recent aires albums (since he used to be in the aires). I said that, precisely because of that, his comment led me to believe that this album has more of an autotune-y feel than aires albums. I consider Kate (where it sounds to me that autotune was used to achieve an effect, not necessarily to cover out of tune singing) to be more autotune-y than Aires albums.
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Postby billhare » Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:59 am

Hahahaha! I was just waiting for Josh to weigh in on this... 18 hours, 27 minutes... what took ya? :-)

But yeah, Chris called it right, it was used as an effect, just as the trashy mastering I did on it as well to head down the Ben Folds road to sonic squashiness. Nothing like an overcompressed piano to get your pop happiness on! :-)

So, the next question is... if Autotune is used as an effect rather than a rescue effort, and a tree falls in the forest, will Britney Spears live happily ever after this time?

Too many all nighters...

-B

Bill Hare Some dude who records and mixes people who can't play instruments. http://www.dyz.com

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Postby jrhailey » Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:51 pm

Okay, that makes sense. I'm not really familiar with the Aires stuff, so I wasn't sure what was being compared to what. I'd like to hear the Madison Project Khaki Album so I could add my two cents. In your opinions, is the Khaki Album autotune heavy for effect? Or is it used as a rescue effort?
Josh Hailey
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Postby gmankid » Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:39 pm

Now, I did sing on this album so it may seem biased to respond to this post... BUT...

I do not think this album is "drenched" in auto-tune. It is definitely used to tighten things up on most tracks, but some aren't even tuned! (Carolina, the stone, angels). The final lead on Ace of Base is WAY tuned as an effect... but other than that it is pretty tame by most standards - even for DIO.

I'm not sure if I have a point :-) Just adding my 2 cents! Definitely give The Khaki Album a listen, it won't disappoint :-)

-Graham-
Graham Cochrane

Producer - Silver Sun Productions
www.silversunpro.com

The Madison Project Alum ('01-'05)
www.themadisonproject.com
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Postby cmasone » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:11 pm

gmankid wrote:but other than that it is pretty tame by most standards - even for DIO.


I thought Dio usually prided himself on NOT using autotune. He's said that people often bring him stuff that's autotuned, but that he shies away from using it much himself. Except as an obvious effect. Did you guys track with him?
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Postby gmankid » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:48 pm

We did track with DIO. And I don't want to sound like I'm summing Dio's style up in one sentence, because he has done tons of great work, and different styles over the years. I just think that this album specifically doesn't sound THAT tuned compared to some of his other work, be it good or bad. That's all :-)

-Graham-
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Postby cmasone » Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:08 pm

gmankid wrote:We did track with DIO. And I don't want to sound like I'm summing Dio's style up in one sentence, because he has done tons of great work, and different styles over the years. I just think that this album specifically doesn't sound THAT tuned compared to some of his other work, be it good or bad. That's all :-)

-Graham-



And I don't think Impaired sounds that tuned compared with a lot of the other stuff out there.

I don't think that one is the most objective judge of one's own work:-)

Then again, I'm the only one who actually knows what I autotuned and what I didn't;-) I think many average listeners tend to think anything that sounds "machiney" is autotuned, when it might just be lots of chorus or flange and some weird EQ or something. People with engineering experience are often good judges, but many people with just enough knowledge to know what autotune is (but not enough to really know what overuse sounds like) often hear it in places where it wasn't used.
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Postby billhare » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:09 am

cmasone wrote:but many people with just enough knowledge to know what autotune is (but not enough to really know what overuse sounds like) often hear it in places where it wasn't used.


Heck, I think I hear it on Beatles songs sometimes and have to jostle myself back to reality! Even I don't know what I AutoTuned sometimes and have to go back to the original files to look - Every single time I've been called on it in a Rarb review or something, they've been wrong about what I tuned, or didn't. They'll say "listen to this part where something is autotuned" and it will be a section that I didn't do anything to, and then there will be other stuff that I totally Frankensteined where they either have no comment or say "wow, their tuning is impeccable!" Just shows to go ya! ;-)

-B

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ahhhh

Postby savedby3n1 » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:15 am

ok. well, along with g-man, i sang on this cd. reading the reviews was odd, to say, because i hate the effects sound. if anyone read comments from the last review of rockstar, i got into a tid bit of a fury with one reviewer because he felt that we needed more production, leading me to say, i could make a bunch on monkeys sound like the mormon tabernacle choir with overproduction. so, with this cd, although hiring a producer, i was skepticle wed become that overproduced group i went off on with the first review. i didnt see it happen, nor could i hear it in the final product. auto tune. to say this cd is drenched with it, is pretty far from the truth. i know we used a tuner more on rockstar than this one. so, i was a little confused by adams review at the end. i felt the first two were pretty much on, along with my own review of our cd. im not one of those that thinks just because he was a part of making it, hes flawless. its ok. we had a few songs we had tracked elsewhere that may show the difference in sound. nonetheless, the first two brought up things id agree with for the most part. however, adams, a bit different. we get negative points for how plain our rendition of clocks was, since the song is plain, and then we get praise for how plain our rendition of love song is because the original is plain. not to bring up the hypocritical fury of the beginning of this post, but, its a pretty right on word. just reading the review right off the bat it was almost like the production was getting a kick in the balls. i, for one, loved the producing. dio rocks balls, and as you can read of my other posts in other topics, i dont care much for people that bash the man. and arrangements that go nowhere. interesting, some arrangements on this cd were nuts. we also won a icca for one. im confused, to say the least. however, i also do remember that these are three listening ears. which, leads me to my next point to say, maybe well catch three good ones on our next attempt to please rarb.
all in all, good points, a few bad ones, but you cant get the good without the bad. thanks again to rarb for what they do, and the people that take the time to listen. you stay classy.

the overemotional girl part performer,

-paul puckett
Paul Puckett

The Madison Project
www.themadisonproject.com
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