Opinions on the Sing review?

Discuss our reviews or just talk about any old album.

Postby dmhjr69 » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:08 pm

Let me be the first to say that NC and SC are not in anyway connected to the a cappella hub that is DC, Boston, etc...

Let me also remind everyone of 'Dio's inability to speak for himself on this board. While I have my reservations about some of 'Dio's practices, I still think that his motion to bring the a cappella community in the Southeast to the forefront took much courage and much personal sacrifice on his behalf - which I respect more than anything.

I still think that Nick is a wonderful person, and that "Sing" is a great CD. I also think that liquid-cooled dual 2.5 GHz processors is the coolest thing I can imagine. On that note...
Mark Hines

Liquid 5th Productions
WareHouse
AACI
dmhjr69
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:25 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Postby jsdiamant » Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:53 am

As a Yankee who has visited North Carolina, South Carolina, and Florida, I've always thought the Carolinas were much more a part of the South than Florida is. OK, parts of Florida are the South, but so much of it is either New York South or, I guess I would call the Fort Myers area, Ohio South?

yahtzeealum wrote:I'll agree with the masses here that the comments were not given in the appropriate venue at all. Man, for someone who's seen the Southeast struggle like CRAZY lately, it is encouraging to see someone like dio take the initiative to build up a southern community. It's funny to hear someone talk about the Carolinas as being a part of the south though. I guess I just imagine them being so close (relatively, in comparison to Florida) to the a cappella hub of D.C., Boston, and NYC. Here's to hoping that the next southern event is a little closer to home. :(

Joshua S. Diamant RARB '02-'05

jsdiamant
 
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 8:26 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY

c'mon...

Postby davebaumgartner » Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:11 am

jdiamant wrote:... I, for one, had no problem with anything Rebecca wrote in that review, and I wouldn't have changed it if I were an editor.


I couldn't possibly agree less. As I don't know all of the people on this board (especially the reviewers), or even a lot of the history, I'm coming into this as a somewhat blind poster. But since when does that stop someone from adding their two cents? :)

RARB reviews are supposed to be well-respected places to read about new a cappella music and perhaps even make album purchasing decisions.

The fact that Dio was called out for his posts on the board, and even worse, without a way to reply, is deplorable, regardless of what he wrote.

The comments about Dio are slander, and nothing less, and they have no reason to be included in a music review.

Walk with me on the edges of making sense, as I try my hardest to make a decent comparison.

For instance, when Michael Jackson comes out with a new album, in most cases the reviewer actually reviews the music, not the twisted inner workings of his personal life. Why? Because people who know of Michael usually already know about the personal stuff going on, but they know that it's not relevant to the music. If they don't know who he's dangling over balconies, they can read about it in the tabloids, or do a google search for Plastic-Faced Baby Danglers.

In the entertainment industry, if everyone's music was reviewed based upon their personal lives, nobody would ever get a good review. Every single article would be based upon groupies, hookers and blow. Granted, while all of those are fun in their own right (so I'm told), they're just not relevant.

If I were an average a cappella fan (not sure entirely what that is) and I came to rarb.org to read the review, and the first thing I saw was the slew of negative comments by Rebecca, I'd probably give up on Sing! right there. I sure as hell wouldn't buy the album.

Simply put, leave the reviews to the music. If we want acapolitics, we'll come here.
davebaumgartner
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:53 am
Location: Raleigh, NC

Postby brianhaverkate » Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:11 pm

As far as the Carolinas being part of the south or not.......I was mainly refering to the fact that there isn't much at all going on in a cappella south of the Carolinas. So, their small aca-village is a whole lot closer in mileage to the eastern hub than Georgia or Florida or Alabama is. Not talking about the people in the states and how we define a "southerner"....that's a far different discussion. :) I think much could be done to bring the aca-village of the Carolinas further down south to promote the creation of new groups down this way. I wanted to attend the recent south event, but was put off by the 12-14 hour drive. I think the recent event was a great start though!
brianhaverkate
RARB
RARB
 
Posts: 419
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:56 am
Location: Detroit, Michigan

Postby jsdiamant » Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:29 pm

Argh, why does no one know what the word "slander" means? It's "the utterance of a falsehood that damages another's reputation," in Mr. Webster's words. For something to be slander, it must be false. Nothing Rebecca wrote was false. (Even if it were, it would be libel, not slander. Slander only refers to spoken falsehoods.) I believe the term you were looking for was "ad hominem attack," though I still don't think her review was inappropriately ad hominem.

Joshua S. Diamant RARB '02-'05

jsdiamant
 
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 8:26 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Postby Jeff Robbins » Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:28 pm

dmhjr69 wrote:Let me be the first to say that NC and SC are not in anyway connected to the a cappella hub that is DC, Boston, etc...


I don't doubt that the acapella scene in NC is indeed much different from the community in DC. I think Yahtzeealum's point was that if you've ever tried driving to North Carolina from one of the big Florida universities, after a while you start to feel like you should have hit Canada already. We aren't saying anything about 'Southern Culture'... we just have sore butts from driving to NC or Virginia every time we want to meet other aca-peeps.

By the way, no sane person living anywhere below I-4 will tell you they live in the south. We import our citizenry. Send us your retired, your blue-haired, your huddled geezers...

By the way, is Rebecca ever going to respond to this stuff?

Hey, did you know 'Rebecca' is the title of a track on Sing? Yeah, I've run out of useful things to say.
Jeff Robbins
No Southern Accent (ret.)
www.nosouthernaccent.org
Jeff Robbins
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 5:27 pm
Location: Gainesville, FL

Postby dmhjr69 » Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:24 pm

Jeff Robbins wrote:I don't doubt that the acapella scene in NC is indeed much different from the community in DC. I think Yahtzeealum's point was that if you've ever tried driving to North Carolina from one of the big Florida universities, after a while you start to feel like you should have hit Canada already.


I was simply trying to state that NC and SC are much more similar to the a cappella scene in GA, FL, AL, etc. than the DC area and North, where a cappella is actually more popular than eating, sleeping and breathing...

jdiamant wrote:Nothing Rebecca wrote was false...I still don't think her review was inappropriately ad hominem.


Josh, do you not think that Rebecca's review should have focussed more on the music, and none on politics...?

Is everyone missing my comments about the new G5's, or are you all trying to pertain to the subject at hand? Come on people - LIQUID COOLED!!!

Out.
Mark Hines

Liquid 5th Productions
WareHouse
AACI
dmhjr69
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:25 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

words shmurds

Postby davebaumgartner » Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:59 am

jdiamant wrote:Argh, why does no one know what the word "slander" means?


Hey Josh,

Do you want to address the points of my post (making sure album reviews are about the albums), or do you just want to try to avoid responding by getting caught up in the semantics of what I wrote? :)

BTW, I looked up semantics, just to be sure I knew what it meant. Here's the link
davebaumgartner
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:53 am
Location: Raleigh, NC

Postby ericskalinder » Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:44 am

Rebecca's comments don't bother me. Why not?

I don't make my purchasing decisions based solely on musical issues. Albums aren't created in a space devoid of all things non-musical. Context is relevant. This particular album happened to be made in a broad, rich, (and apparently controversial) context. Political and personal issues are everywhere (duh). They happen to be important to me. And from that perspective, I actually found her review refreshing. How much do I really want to read about tuning and vowel matching and acasyllables anyway? Not much.

I just read Rebecca's review again. There are two sentences that contain so-called political content. Two. Out of 23 sentences. And they're not even particularly biting. Two. That's approximately 8.5% of the review.

She is not the only RARB source for this particular album. Her comments are published in conjunction with the opinions of two additional reviewers. And both of the other reviews address the relevant musical issues. (So does she, by the way.)

I don't believe her comments damage RARB's good name one single bit. Her own image? That's another story, but I imagine she took that under consideration before submitting her review. She clearly found it important enough to address, and that's good enough for me. If I had a problem with it, I'd just focus on reading the reviewers I happen to enjoy.

Also, Mr. 'Dio is not defenseless here. He's not locked up in a cell and being held incommunicado at Gitmo. There are ways he could address this issue if he so desired. I like to think we haven't heard from him because he's moved past all this overly dramatic blather. Despite my issues with Mr. 'Dio on this forum, he's probaby out there right now busting his balls to further the success of a cappella music.
ericskalinder
RARB
RARB
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 8:30 pm
Location: chicago, il

Postby billhare » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:24 am

Hopefully we can put this one to bed soon, but in talking about "good names", "images" and such things, let's also keep in mind that this whole world of RARB is completely a labor of love and volunteer work, which is about as good as a name you can have, and can't be sullied by a few slip-ups now and then. If we want to hold these people up to every word they write, we've got to be prepared to get in there and give of ourselves if we think it can be done better, because they won't stick around.

Now yes, Rebecca made a mistake, and the editors should probably have been able to predict the brouhaha that has resulted, but they have also given of themselves for years without compensation except for the satisfaction that they are doing something good for their community.

I think the wake-up call has been made, and before we scare away any reviewers who give generously of their time here, let's move on.

Bill Hare Some dude who records and mixes people who can't play instruments. http://www.dyz.com

billhare
 
Posts: 2002
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 11:14 am
Location: Silicon Valley, CA

Postby elocomotive » Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:36 am

I just like that multiple people referred to DC as "a hub of a cappella." I live here and I had no idea save the obvious kick-assitude that is/was DaVinci's Notebook. And to save Josh the time, no, "kick-assitude" isn't a real word. Lol.

Though I suppose behind Boston and The City, nothing else really compares as a "hub."

And I agree with Mark, "liquid cooled" processors ARE pretty cool.
elocomotive
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:32 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

viva dc

Postby rebecca » Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:26 pm

billhare wrote:Now yes, Rebecca made a mistake


I did not make a mistake. Like the Lorax, I said what I mean and I mean what I say. (Although in the interest of complete transparency, I do apologize for my abysmal counting skills. I said 16 tracks, but the set list only goes up to 15.)

I have corresponded privately with Dave Sperandio about the review. As for the rest, I leave RARB policy in our coordinator's capable hands.

elocomotive wrote:I just like that multiple people referred to DC as "a hub of a cappella." I live here and I had no idea


More cause for celebration: there are FIVE a cappella groups performing in this weekend's Fete de la Musique in DC: Almost Recess, Passing Notes, dcVocals, DC Accidentals, and Vox Populi

http://dcarts.dc.gov/dcarts/cwp/view,a,3,q,528342.asp

This bounty in addition to our DVN heroes -- Paul Bernie Storm & Richard -- and a flock of collegiate groups. Viva DC!
rebecca
RARB
RARB
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2002 1:40 pm
Location: washington, dc

Postby bstevens » Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:14 pm

As RARB Coordinator, I stand by our publication of Rebecca's review of Sing!. Our guidelines do not prohibit the consideration or discussion in a review of material external to an album. Indeed I believe, as do many of our reviewers and readers, that such material may enrich the text of a review by linking its specifics with themes and events more generally present in the a cappella community, the music world, or the world at large (not to mention by making possible a refreshing variety of writing styles).

Although the narrow purpose of RARB reviews is to rate music, they serve more broadly, especially alongside reader contributions to the Forums, as a multivocal running commentary on a cappella. Our reviewers are thus valued not only for their expertise at listening critically to a cappella music, but also for their diverse contributions to and knowledge of the a cappella world and the world generally.

In all of this Rebecca is no exception: while she and I may differ in musical taste, she has long since earned and continues to have my confidence in her ability to construct interesting and appropriate reviews. In this case, the external material she has chosen to include is presented with due qualification (her point is to emphasize how she appreciates Mr. Sperandio's positive contributions to a cappella) and is thus neither "mistake" in terms of appropriateness nor, I must insist, factual error, "slander", or "libel", all names which do injustice to Rebecca's careful prose and considered opinions.

On a very much related note, I'm delighted to return from a week's hiatus to see a vital discussion well underway. The Community Reviews section of the Forum is in my opinion woefully underused. All of us at RARB take seriously the concerns of our readership and value your comments both public and private. It is just this sort of sustained community dialogue, about a review no less than an album, that will continue to make the a cappella community just that, a community in the true sense of the word.

Thanks for reading.

Benjamin Stevens

CASA Director of Education

Educational Officer for Festivals and Events

bstevens
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 636
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 3:19 pm
Location: Mid-Hudson Valley, NY

Re: words shmurds

Postby jsdiamant » Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:42 pm

Considering that we're not discussing a review I wrote and only Rebecca can tell us why she chose to write what she did, I feel perfectly content to pick on your semantics as much as I choose. I never intended to defend Rebecca's words and said nothing more about them than that I didn't particularly object to them. To be honest, I didn't find this particular review of hers all that useful. My original point was simply that editing is subjective and you should not expect every editor to make the same decisions you would.

dcrulz wrote:
jdiamant wrote:Argh, why does no one know what the word "slander" means?


Hey Josh,

Do you want to address the points of my post (making sure album reviews are about the albums), or do you just want to try to avoid responding by getting caught up in the semantics of what I wrote? :)

BTW, I looked up semantics, just to be sure I knew what it meant. Here's the link

Joshua S. Diamant RARB '02-'05

jsdiamant
 
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 8:26 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: words shmurds

Postby elocomotive » Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:52 pm

jdiamant wrote:My original point was simply that editing is subjective and you should not expect every editor to make the same decisions you would.


This issue is definitely kinda interesting in that almost all of the RARB staff seem to feel one way about the issue, and almost all of the public posters seem to feel the opposite.

Just thought that was an interesting and rare occurence.

-Eric
elocomotive
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:32 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

PreviousNext

Return to zzCommunity Reviews

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron