The Spartones CD

Discuss our reviews or just talk about any old album.

Postby ericskalinder » Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:56 am

Mr. Rico wrote:...the simpletons on this forum vent like morons. Bye


I know, I know -- if we just ignore him maybe he'll go away. But the irony is killing me and it reminds me of an amusing little quote most often attributed to Mr. Groucho Marx:

"I don't want to belong to a club that would accept me as a member."

Apparently, Mr. Rico has declined to heed such advice. :)
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Postby singyourheart » Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:41 pm

ericskalinder wrote:
Mr. Rico wrote:...the simpletons on this forum vent like morons. Bye


I know, I know -- if we just ignore him maybe he'll go away. But the irony is killing me



indeed, the irony is incredible.

in case anyone actually does want to "fight" (ahem) Mr. Flores:

http://www.uncg.edu/~jjflores/

or if you'd like to read about his incredibly exciting life:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/ricohitman/ (a graduate degree in creative *writing*? holy crap, i just soiled myself...)

fair is fair, after all. Josh got to poke fun at Eric's Magic game. Eric at least deserves at shot at www.trombones.net

rolling. just rolling.
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Postby sdargie » Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:46 pm

Groucho: "Take a card, any card"
Woman: "What do I do with the card?"
Groucho: "Keep it. I have 51 more."
-Duck Soup
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All About Buford
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Re: fights

Postby Cutter » Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:03 pm

rico wrote:Why? You want to fight me? Wouldn't be a surprise since the simpletons on this forum vent like morons. Bye.


Uh... that makes no sense, and no, I don't want to fight you. I was just curious, because you sound like the type of guy that likes to get drunk and look for people to start fights with.

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Postby Cutter » Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:08 pm

billhare wrote:A successful producer can usually make a *good* group sound *great*, but it's nearly impossible to take a *bad* group and make them even sound *good* !


Definitely echo most of your sentiments and would not downplay the role of actual group quality in an album, but I have to dissent. It's quite possible and I've seen it done several times. Don't want to insult anyone, so names have been withheld to protect the innocent.

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Postby billhare » Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:16 pm

Box wrote:
billhare wrote:A successful producer can usually make a *good* group sound *great*, but it's nearly impossible to take a *bad* group and make them even sound *good* !


Definitely echo most of your sentiments and would not downplay the role of actual group quality in an album, but I have to dissent. It's quite possible and I've seen it done several times. Don't want to insult anyone, so names have been withheld to protect the innocent.
Cutter


You called me on it, and you're right, Cutter - I'm witholding names as well, but it's a "fool some of the people most of the time" prospect at best. I guess what I am saying is that I can't make a bad group sound to *MY* standard of "good", but I know I can fool a majority of the listeners out there who have no point of reference. That really is my job anyway, isn't it? :-)

-B

Bill Hare Some dude who records and mixes people who can't play instruments. http://www.dyz.com

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Postby brianhaverkate » Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:43 am

And I think it's sad that the Beatles broke up, but things have to change, even if it looks to the old guard like it's stagnating for awhile. Sinatra thought Elvis sounded like noise, Elvis thought the Beatles souded like noise, and on down the line - music is always "ruined" when our era is done. Now we have to go through our *own* Disco and New Wave eras, and whoever has the spikyest hair wins for the moment. I was there for the 80s and 90s, so I know what you speak of. But this is a new generation, and we have to either move over and see what happens or help them achieve their goals. Yes, I'm very lucky that I make my entire living doing this, but I'm also very happy after all is said and done seeing very hard work by very enthusiastic young people pay off with accolades from their peers, positive reviews, and good album sales.

-B


I have to disagree Bill. I don't have a problem with the new music on the radio, or groups covering these songs. Do songs you like, sure. However, a cappella is not a genre. It's just singing without instruments. I just think there's more out there than only the current radio pop/rock/r&b top 40. There's country, jazz, blues, hard rock, punk, folk, rap, world music, medieval, baroque, renaissance, classical, barbershop, Christian....and ORIGINALS (gosh I'd love to see and hear more of this from the collegiate community!).

The fact that there is all this music in the world and the collegiate a cappella community is stuck in pop-world says something. From a music educator's perspective it's disheartening to see this as the only viable choice for repertoire. It's so limiting. I'd be interested to hear someone's honest thoughts on why they think repertoire has been focussed so specifically in the area of pop music, other than the notion that "hey, it's what we like". I don't buy it.
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Postby jpchip » Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:41 am

At the risk of coming off as a snob, I would say that you simply haven't been listening to enough a cappella. Sure, there's a vast amount of smarmy pop covers out there, but there are also plenty of groups that do jazz, barbershop, punk, folk, even classical music. Several people on this board can point you in the right direction, I'm sure. I would, but most of my recent musical knowledge comes from my very eclectic housemate, so I don't know names of groups or anything yet.
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Postby billhare » Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:11 am

yahtzeealum wrote: However, a cappella is not a genre. It's just singing without instruments.


"A Cappella", whatever it is, is whatever we want to make of it. Unfortunately we're stuck with the name, and a few self-imposed "rules", but we're still in the evolution. Is "Rock" any different? Are Elvis and Korn the same? Whether it's an "improvement" or not, it's still an evolution. We also can't tell Britney Spears that she should be doing Jazz or Classical just because she's not varied enough - she does what she does. I'm sure Blink 182 knows that madrigals exist, but I'm not holding my breath that they'll pull one out at their next concert! These collegiate groups are bands in the same spirit of these artists - they need to to do what they do. Sure, experiment with other styles if you can (and many do - they just don't tend to put this other stuff on albums), but variety for variety's sake just makes you a master of none. If this were a formal educational program, I'd be more from your point of view, but these are self-directed musical entities, rock bands (and jazz bands, and choirs, and whatever) who are making their own marks, developing their own styles, etc. Yes, some are cookie cutter transcriptions of top 40 songs, but that's the learning curve - they are doing it on their own, and eventually branch out. We can hear an album from a young, recently-purged-of-all-upper-classmen group doing note-for-note transcriptions of maroon 5 songs, and 2 years later hear the same group doing cool versions of something else. Maybe not "O Magnum Mysterium" but branching out nonetheless (but...hey wait... didn't the U of Illinois No Strings Attached do "O Magnum Mysterium", which made BOCA, along with country, R&B, rock, and other eclectic stuff? Check out this song list)

yahtzeealum wrote:I just think there's more out there than only the current radio pop/rock/r&b top 40. There's country, jazz, blues, hard rock, punk, folk, rap, world music, medieval, baroque, renaissance, classical, barbershop, Christian....and ORIGINALS (gosh I'd love to see and hear more of this from the collegiate community!).


I think JPChip had a good point, you're not looking hard enough - there are collegiate groups who do all the stuff you mentioned - just from my own stable of clients - have you heard De Anza College's "Vocal Flight"? They consitently win top awards in vocal Jazz Circles, including about 10 Downbeat Magazine "db" awards so far. Stanford Talisman anyone? I believe they are still the top rated collegiate album on the RARB Board:
rarb.org/reviews/259.html Groups like AVP tend to have a few country tunes on each album, and I'm currently working on a 100% original album by Stanford's Fleet Street Singers. Many Christian groups, Jewish groups, Indian groups out there. Originals are popping up FAR more often now than the "glory days" of the early 90's you mentioned. The many classical/baroque/madrigal etc. collegiate albums that come out every year don't get a lot of buzz in this community, but they are out there for sure.


yahtzeealum wrote:The fact that there is all this music in the world and the collegiate a cappella community is stuck in pop-world says something. From a music educator's perspective it's disheartening to see this as the only viable choice for repertoire. It's so limiting. I'd be interested to hear someone's honest thoughts on why they think repertoire has been focussed so specifically in the area of pop music, other than the notion that "hey, it's what we like". I don't buy it.


This kind of sums it up. Brian, please don't think I'm dismissing your valid comments here, this is just in the spirit of good debate. But I think you're looking in the wrong place. Why is a self-governed A Cappella group any different than a band of people who are experienced with and want to play a certain kind of music for their own enjoyment? Would you go up to a New Orleans Jazz band playing out on Bourbon Street and say "as an educator, I'm disheartened to see you're not doing much Mozart or John Cage in your repertoire"? Of course you wouldn't.

Your points are well taken, and if these groups were part of a legitimate music education program at these colleges, I'd agree with you. But they are not - they are autonomous performance outfits, who want to do something fun, with others of like tastes and abilities, and possibly show off for the cuties in the front row of a dorm show. Singing "Coney Island Washboard" might not be the best way to convince them how cool you are!

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Postby brianhaverkate » Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:03 am

Bill- well said. I'd like to get a more detailed list of these groups you're speaking of. These groups, obviously aren't getting good exposure. I've never heard of most of the ones you speak to. When I was in college I was more likely to go onto Mainely A Cappella and just choose a CD with an interesting set list to buy, but not so much anymore.
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Postby elocomotive » Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:31 pm

amysingsla wrote:Bitter, party of one? Bitter?


Lol, that was really funny.

I can't believe this post thread is still going.
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