BOCA 2006 thoughts?

[billhare]

What is it that carries with a group that enables them to be on BOCA year after year, even after the members have been completely replaced by new people?

What is that fire, and why does it...what's the word? burn?

I think "momentum" is the better word. Money helps, but one begets the other in a way. Arrangements, knowledge passed through the genepool, and a sense of not letting previous generations of your group down once it's built to a certain level are big factors.

No more than 1/5th of the groups Bill works with end up on BOCA in any given year, which says something. No one can spin gold out of straw, not even Bill.

Wow, all the fairy tale references. Once upon a time there were 3 Bubs. A Papa Bub, a Mama Bub, and a Baby Bub. One day a girl named Goldy Overtone was walking through the forest...

I decided to check the math on this, because I was thinking Deke was right (in fact I thought he was being generous) so I checked my records. I worked with 8 collegiate A Cappella groups during 2004 (and don't even know if they all sent in to BOCA) and 4 of them placed on BOCA 2005, so I actually got at least 50%. That said, it was a good year - other years I get less cuts and work with more groups... but I still can't spin straw into gold!

Also, don't forget that time is an important coefficient. The more time you have the less money you need, provided you're making the right decisions. More groups are going the self-recorded route, and the increased time they spend significantly decreases the money needed to make the track great.

Yes. I've done some mixes in 2 or 3 hours because the time was spent by the group getting things right. I could have spent many times that (at $100 per hour) had they not put that care into the editing.

My honest opinion and one word answer? Money. Let the fighting begin. ;)

Do remember that there have been several cuts on BOCA that were entirely self produced, meaning no money was spent after the equipment was purchased. If the equipment stays with the group, their recordings become entirely time investments the next year. Yes, money can give you an unfair advantage, but in the end, talent will edge it out. I really do believe that, even with my AutoTuned state of mind!

-B

[vkolko]

Do remember that there have been several cuts on BOCA that were entirely self produced, meaning no money was spent after the equipment was purchased. If the equipment stays with the group, their recordings become entirely time investments the next year. Yes, money can give you an unfair advantage, but in the end, talent will edge it out. I really do believe that, even with my AutoTuned state of mind!

Ah, this is true, Billapella, but even equipment costs money. :) I guess my argument is that if you've got the dough and apply it appropriately (outsourcing the production, buying your own and doing it yourself, taking lessons, etc.) you are more likely to be able to crank out a quality piece of work.

Val

[dgooding]

Another thing about this - I think there will be more "wild cards" this year as well.

This will be a very good BOCA, I'm sure - D&D have quite a job ahead of them!

-B

For those who are curious, the line-up as I get submissions is here:

http://varsityvocals.com/boca/2006-submissions.html

Don Gooding
"One of the 'D's' in D&D"

[jthelegend]

No more than 1/5th of the groups Bill works with end up on BOCA in any given year, which says something. No one can spin gold out of straw, not even Bill.

Well, fuck...guess my group won't be shelling out it's life-savings to Bill on the next album as we previously planned. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE IN ANYMORE!

[jrhailey]

"The Scientist" - Last Call
(don't think scientist has been on a boca and lc has the best one i've heard so far...the spacy soloist and those backgrounds are just hauntingly beautiful)

What does anyone think about "The Scientist" off of AVP's Academical Is Not A Word? This is definitely one of my favorites on the album. The clip isn't on http://www.academicalvillagepeople.com yet, but you CAN find it on AVP's My Space account at http://myspace.com/academicalvillagepeople.

Smooth plug, right?

-Josh

[harry]

when does BOCA line-up get announced?

[H.F.]

"Crazy Train" - Clefs
(though the 2nd rapper just can't quite keep up with Twista and imho that does severely hurt the strength of the track)

Compared to what other group?

[jthelegend]

I was comparing the 2nd rapper on "Crazy Train" to the original song, which he is a far cry from. He just doesn't have the speed in his raps to keep up with Twista (a friend of mine...well I know him at least). You don't always have to compare someone to another aca group. It's fair to compare to the song that exists on the radio. Aca is a cover-based genre isn't it?

[jthelegend]

What does anyone think about "The Scientist" off of AVP's Academical Is Not A Word? This is definitely one of my favorites on the album. The clip isn't on http://www.academicalvillagepeople.com yet, but you CAN find it on AVP's My Space account at http://myspace.com/academicalvillagepeople.

Smooth plug, right?

-Josh

I think the background was awesome on that track. Especially the end. The AVP guys really took the song towards a climax and I liked that ending a helluva lot better than the "going back" thing in the LC version. That being said, I also take soloist quality into account. And the sing-talk type of style that the AVP soloist implores is just no match for the rich, beautiful baritone that Andrew Collier invokes with his track. While I liked the AVP version a bit, the LC version touched me almost as much as the original. Plus, the background is just so goddamn amazing too. So effin' rich.

[H.F.]

I was comparing the 2nd rapper on "Crazy Train" to the original song, which he is a far cry from. He just doesn't have the speed in his raps to keep up with Twista (a friend of mine...well I know him at least). You don't always have to compare someone to another aca group. It's fair to compare to the song that exists on the radio. Aca is a cover-based genre isn't it?

Very true. Of course, it isn't Best of Songs That Exist on the Radio - it's Best of College A Cappella.

I hear what you're saying and you're right, the 2nd guy isn't quite as talented as the guy in the real song. Thankfully though, group's aren't 'competing' with Twista for spots on BOCA - they're 'competing' with their peers.

[jthelegend]

Very true. Of course, it isn't Best of Songs That Exist on the Radio - it's Best of College A Cappella.

I hear what you're saying and you're right, the 2nd guy isn't quite as talented as the guy in the real song. Thankfully though, group's aren't 'competing' with Twista for spots on BOCA - they're 'competing' with their peers.

True, it may not be Best of Songs that Exist on the Radio, it is a valid comparison to the original song. If the solo on the aca-version can't hold a candle to the original soloist, then is it still worthy of an award simply because they did it a cappella? I think many would agree with my emphatic NO on this matter.
I'll even use a few examples of this. "Brat" on 'Memory Remains' - if he sucked or was at least not half as good as he is on this track then not only in comparison to the rest of a cappella, but in comparison with Metallica...it would be a bad cover. Plenty more examples of this arise. If you don't have someone that can pull it off and pull it off well then it's not good simply cuz' it was done by an a cappella group. A Cappella is a cover-based genre and how many times have you been pissed off when a newer artist covers one of your favorite songs of all time and fucks it up. The same rule applies here. Just because he's not competing with anyone else covering this song doesn't justify it being on BOCA...especially with rap, as long as you can line the words up correctly with the original, that's good enough. He struggled with that and was out of rhythm numerous times, therefore it doesn't merit a boca. You aren't trying to mimic the original exactly, but some things like timing etc, are paramount.

[H.F.]

If the solo on the aca-version can't hold a candle to the original soloist, then is it still worthy of an award simply because they did it a cappella? I think many would agree with my emphatic NO on this matter...Just because he's not competing with anyone else covering this song doesn't justify it being on BOCA...especially with rap, as long as you can line the words up correctly with the original, that's good enough. He struggled with that and was out of rhythm numerous times, therefore it doesn't merit a boca.

Again I understand your points, but I think you're missing some as well. And you're judging this song by criteria that are too narrow and just off base to some extent. You're welcome to your opinion, as to how a group should have interpreted a line, or delivered same. But even if your opinion was "right", in the case of this track the sum is much greater than this part. Come mid-November, you're likely to see that.

[ariel]

Come mid-November, you're likely to see that.

them's fighting words.

For the record, I have never heard the original or the cover version of this song and have no predictions about whether it will make BOCA. I just think that no one can be sure about any group or track making BOCA. I mean, how many times has it happened that the community loves a song and it doesn't make BOCA and everyone freaks....or like a couple years ago, when *gasp* OTB didn't make it on BOCA at all much less the song(s) people were expecting to make it, and everyone crapped their pants because they were highly expected to and then there was a hubbub about it.

It's just silly to make statements like that because while said track very well might be on BOCA, you never know, and in mid-November, if it's not on it, you're going to look like an ass for saying that.

[H.F.]

Them's fighting words...

It's just silly to make statements like that because while said track very well might be on BOCA, you never know, and in mid-November, if it's not on it, you're going to look like an ass for saying that.

That was pretty much the point (smiley) But thanks for your thoughts.

PS - ever play sports?

[ariel]

yes.....volleyball, softball, basketball. No, I'm not the cross country runner from North Carolina... she stole *my* name :-)