Class Notes - "Hint of Lime"

[jthelegend]

so, normally i don't post complaints about reviews, but i'm a little stunned after reading it. i'll preface this by saying that since i worked on the album i'm obviously a little biased, but i don't really understand the review.
first the disparity & contradictions in the reviews don't really leave me much with a sense of "what went wrong"
second, (and again, i'm biased) i just don't agree with the low scoring of the album, especially by kevin sawyer. anybody else heard the album and wanna comment? i really am at a loss

[phollens]

Yeah, I'll give you an amen on the low scoring from Kevin... no idea what he was listening to but it sure as heck wasn't that album. Honestly I thought the production on the album was top notch. I'm a little confused what do you listen with Kevin? Do you only listen to your albums from laptop speakers, or video game speakers? Seems like your hearing stuff that I can't even hear in my Studio, or my car.

[ajg55]

The guys leading Sunday Morning and Where You Are have great voices that capture the style demanded of these songs.

Yeaaa Anderson! and Anderson!

I was especially surprised by the score of 1 for "Torn" and "Where You Are." They are both very listenable tracks with (IMO) better than average solos... isn't "1" usually reserved for things that are painfully bad? I mean, it is Kevin Sawyer's right as a reviewer to score things as he pleases, but I can't really imagine any of these songs being below average "in comparison to the general body of a cappella recordings available" (RARB scoring system). Tough break for the Class Notes.

[dherriges]

I heard a few of the tracks a while ago, as a "test listener" for the mixes. And I've listened to the few sample clips on their web site. I'm not as enthusiastic about this stuff as the above posters, but the "2" score from Kevin seems off the mark to me... it's musically solid if somewhat uninspired, and soloists are generally strong. And the low scores for "Sound / Production" are bizarre; definitely not hearing that. What I do remember from hearing a few full tracks is that I found the arrangements generally annoying, with distracting syllables and lacking the groove / vibe of the originals (Put Your Records On I remember being a particular offender, with a way too rigid and straight beat), and that seems to be borne out by comments in Dave and Joseph's reviews... so that part doesn't surprise me at all.

[tat-tong]

Hmm, in the interest of full disclosure, I worked on Sunday Morning, and was hangin' out in Bill's studio while a couple of the tracks were mixed. The main thing I liked about the album was how well-sung and energetic the tracks were, at least to me. Maybe some other areas could use improving, but I really don't see how an album that's of this technical and musical caliber (definitely at "average", if not better) could get a 2.

Perhaps that's a sign of things to come? That, now that we've conquered most of the technical challenges of creating an in time, in tune, nice-to-listen-to product that can match up to stuff on radio, that reviewers now approach albums simply on the basis of whether the music moves them, technicalities be damned. Kind of like what Rolling Stone does - all Top 40 albums are well produced and technically sound overall, but some of them still get 1 out of 4 stars...

Case in point: the MIT Logs Soundproof review 2 albums back - I vaguely remember one of the reviewers saying that while he HATED the album, he had to give it a 5, because by the rubric, it excelled technically and was well sung and arranged. Would such reviews exist today?

It's an interesting shift in philosophy, if anything. Thoughts?

[Chris]

You also may find that newer reviewers may score albums lower, since the general body of recordings that they have heard (only recent ones) are on average of higher caliber than what more veteran reviewers have heard on average (includes older CDs).

Also keep in mind that most CDs that are horrible aren't submitted for RARB review. That also skews scores downward, because reviewers are less likely to hear these CDs than to hear good and great CDs.

[billhare]

You also may find that newer reviewers may score albums lower, since the general body of recordings that they have heard (only recent ones) are on average of higher caliber than what more veteran reviewers have heard on average (includes older CDs).

Actually, in this case I think it was the youngest reviewer, Joseph, who was most positive about it:

The album boasts top-notch mixing and mastering throughout. Everything in its place, creative sonic additions to the arrangements, heavy-hitting bass and percussion.

Compare that to the two older reviewers:

The album relies heavily on intrusive mixing to bring it up to a reasonably good standard, but discerning listeners will detect the hallmarks of a group that needs work.

Hint of Lime has clearly been through the production wringer, and I can't say the production is entirely effective here.

I'm not arguing a right or wrong here, but I think it's interesting to see that it's not exactly what Chris was saying - Dave and Kevin have been around the block since the mid 90s, and I do believe they were hearing stuff that wasn't to their personal liking based on years of experience.

What it is, I don't know - to be honest, I don't remember much about the Class Notes' album and haven't heard it since I mixed it, but also that fact can be looked at as a good thing because I especially remember the "stinker" albums because they hurt so much to mix! This obviously was not one of those, and even some of those have garnered much higher RARB scores than this one.

All I know is that it used to be that I was disappointed to get ANYTHING less than a "5" in that sound/production column, this was the first time in all my 14 years of RARB reviews to see a "2", and TWO of those at that! [/whimpering]

I was amused to see Kevin bring up England's Flying Pickets with some reverence, a band I've been working with for a few years now (just finished their new album a few days ago!) and really don't treat much differently than I would have treated the Class Notes sonically or production-wise!

first the disparity & contradictions in the reviews don't really leave me much with a sense of "what went wrong"

This is the beauty of having 3 reviewers, though - you can pick one who you tend to agree with most, and discount the rest. I have no doubt that there are many out there who would side with Kevin and Dave, and just as many who would side with Joseph:

The album's vocal percussion is heavily machined and sounds fake at times.

Mr. Cannon is clearly the best in the collegiate business with vocal percussion. The creative, cool sounds and engaging sequencing are far ahead of the pack.

I rest my case. People are pretty divided on this issue, so pick the stuff you like to listen to, and find your own Personal RARB Reviewing Real Estate Agent™.

The entire group sounds squashed through a rack of compressors, harmonizers, and aural exciters.

I never use Aural Exciters!! Take that back - ewwww!! :-)

Compressors, yes, but basically in the same way I would on any other album. I agree that every group/arrangement/soloist/way-something-was-originally-recorded-or-edited will affect how it sounds going through the "process". And of course I alter that process to accommodate for each of these things, but my standards stay the same. I would have given it the same care and basic techniques that I give any House Jacks, Bubs, Pickets, or any other top-tier album, at least in the technical sonic department.

This is more of an explanation than a complaint, I'll take my "2"s and put them in a drawer under the scissors, but hopefully not indicative of things to come! :-)

-B

[ThunderCurl]

Yea, reviews are rough. And so based-off-whatever.
It's been a bit of my own frustration that so many groups have been able to master the "production" end of recording an album, simply by having enough money to pay for perfection, but then that leaves the reviewers to say "so what's left?"

A quote from Dave Trendler's review of Last Call's previous album, Straight Up:"Attention all right wingers — if the idea of a mass of convincingly groaning men (who refer to themselves as "Callboys") makes your skin crawl, avoid the bridge of I Touch Myself… and consider another album. But if you're cool with a little gender haziness and don't mind some cheesy tunes, Straight Up might be worth a listen. After all, the men of Last Call sing with gusto and precision and mix with some masters."

What that means is that there's more to an album than just the production. I might not be a good reviewer because my musical taste doesn't include a lot of hard, driving rock, or Emo music. So if an awesome group put out an album full of my least favorite tunes, I wouldn't like it. And that's my opinion.

Many film reviwers "don't like" lots of amazing movies, just because...well hell, who knows.
So, IMO, it's a combo of the style of background syllables and arrangements that bring the scores down, and the soloists that bring 'em up.

One thing is for sure, though. With a 4, a 3, and a 2, you can't take any of them as a totally accurate appraisal of the album's worth. Hint of Lime doesn't have a number rating in my mind. It's an album by the Class Notes, and a very good showing of who they are. In recorded a cappella, what you hear is what you get; don't trust your eyes.

[jsdiamant]

I, for one, thought Hint of Lime was one of the best albums I'd heard all year. and by "all year," I mean "the three weeks in which every waking moment was spent on CARA nominating."

so take my opinion with a grain of salt, as there was no doubt some aural fatigue involved. but yeah, I was quite surprised by the reviews.

[mwhitehouse]

Rather than make their own musical statement, with all the nuance implied by the title and classy cover art, they have settled for the vocal equivalent of limeade. Alas, this tonic is drinkable but forgettable.

I don't understand; limeade is delicious.

**TYLER: IN ADDITION TO BEING UNIVERSALLY TRUE, THIS IS AN INSIDE JOKE BETWEEN YOU AND ME.**

Jim O'Brien does some nice work, and makes lemonade out of the Lightning Crashes chaos.

I see how it is.

so take my opinion with a grain of salt ...

Too much.

[ThunderCurl]

Casablanca, don't turn my comments into propaganda. Yes, limeade is the most delicious drink in the world (next to a creamsicle maybe) but that doesn't mean i liked the album because of this. As for the lemonade and salt comments, it just goes to show you that everyone here on RARB has different levels of expertise and experience which contribute heavily to their reviews, making everything biased somehow.

That being said, more people need to drink limeade; it's too fucking good (santa cruz organic limeade, in that cool glass bottle. that's my pref)

P.S. teehee it's simultaneously a jokepost AND a seriouspost!

[DaveGrossman]

maybe i shouldnt leave my computer unattended. rob dietz is a douche.
love, a stranger